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Discussion: Episode 4.11 "Chinese Wall"

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amy_c	Episode 4.11 "Chinese Wall" Oct 3 2010, 4:18 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 3 2010, 4:18 PM EDT Synopsis: The employees of Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce resort to scuttlebutt after an agency wide meeting is called. Let's discuss the episode here after it airs! Post reply Do you find this valuable? Keyword tags: None
MaXimillian10	1. RE: Episode 4.11 "Chinese Wall" Oct 3 2010, 7:09 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 3 2010, 7:09 PM EDT 2 hours and counting ! This is going to be amazing ! M Post reply Do you find this valuable?
MaXimillian10	2. RE: Episode 4.11 "Chinese Wall" Oct 3 2010, 11:07 PM EDT "2 hours and counting ! This is going to be amazing ! M" Well ? You guys were right. I really thought Don was turning over a new leaf, but I was wrong,,,. M Post reply Do you find this valuable?
donsnextwife	3. RE: Episode 4.11 "Chinese Wall" Oct 4 2010, 12:00 AM EDT I don't know why I can't seem to post anything that isn't a reply to someone else's post. Why am I not seeing a place to make my own post? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
donsnextwife	4. questions Oct 4 2010, 12:02 AM EDT ok, call me crazy but why does anyone think Roger wishes he knew that the night they got mugged was their last time? What did he mean? And the look on Peggy's face when she realized she had lipstick all over her teeth....he should have told her and didn't. I don't get that. What are your thoughts, everyone? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Greg1835	5. RE: questions Oct 4 2010, 1:38 AM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 4 2010, 1:38 AM EDT Mother and a Waitress: Don seems to have found a new mother and a waitress in Megan. Things taken care of for him. And that's all. WIth Faye, she wants to be owed. Allsion felt she was owed also. We don't even need to mention Peggy in this regard. Women want emotional payment from Don. But Megan doesn't demand that. Remember Megan's line about not running out of here crying etc. Note the line of Don telling Megan to watch him on his drinking; asking for mother and a waitress. As well as, she fixes his trophy. She sees something wrong and fixes it for him. And even leaving in the end, she's telling him as he is leaving, how to go, taking care of him. Don has two versions of home. He comes to his 1st home, i.e. work, Megan is waiting for him. He then comes home to his apartment, 2nd home, Faye is also waiting for him. Brunette vs blond both yet again waiting for Mr. Draper. But he says "thank you" to Faye. Between his recent dealings with Allison and then Peggy in different ways, he's learned the lessons of honey and thank you vs his own lessons of vinegar with business, here with Megan and Faye vs the office. Then there's that 3rd version of home, Betty, which as of last week was a little more positive, and was absent here tonight. Symbolical in my opinion, Betty's absense this episode. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Greg1835	6. RE: questions Oct 4 2010, 1:40 AM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 4 2010, 1:40 AM EDT But in the end.... Don fights with the agency, clients, and fights with the blond who to him is home-like. But, he finds sanctuary, a certain and simple and different kind of home, in the brunette. Isn't this exact struggle what really is home for Don, his seemingly eternal search for home; yet...the struggle itself, is it this which is home? Home with the blond, but sanctuary with the brunette. Do we men want home, or sanctuary? Or do we want both. But wait a minute...aren't they both supposed to be one in the same? Maybe, sometimes the real answer is...no. (que your booooing now) Or is this one of the greater themes of Mad Men? Home and sanctuary: are they synonymous, or actually in real life and marriage, mutually exclusive? I know, Booo right? But MM makes you ask these questions... Post reply Do you find this valuable?
SCMadman	7. RE: Episode 4.11 "Chinese Wall" Oct 4 2010, 9:29 AM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 4 2010, 9:29 AM EDT "Well ? You guys were right. I really thought Don was turning over a new leaf, but I was wrong,,,. M " Max, In a way Don was different, at least with Megan. He let her initiate their moment and even paused twice to ask her if she was sure she knew what she was doing. And then he looked as though he was remorseful for his actions when Faye was at the apartment waiting on him, especially after she informed him about her attempt to get him in the door with a new client. Donsnextwife, As for Peggy's face, she knew she just had a typical office prank pulled on her. She realized what the client was referring to when he kep running his tounge across his teeth in an attempt to let her know she had lipstick on her teeth. Her colleague did not tell her because she had just turned him away when he tried to kiss her. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
setharmstrong	8. RE: Episode 4.11 "Chinese Wall" Oct 4 2010, 9:53 AM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 4 2010, 2:55 PM EDT It looks like Don picked the wrong week to give up drinking. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
donsnextwife	9. RE: questions Oct 4 2010, 11:30 AM EDT "Mother and a Waitress: " He acts like he knows what he wants to cover the fact that he doesn't. Think of his role models. You go with what you've learned. But he is learning. I'm impressed that he is even open to it. As far as Megan, I think she will become more demanding as time goes on. And Faye, could Don be seeing just what she did for him in the name of possible love? Would he have done the same for her??? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
donsnextwife	10. RE: Episode 4.11 "Chinese Wall" Oct 4 2010, 11:33 AM EDT I thought she would have been more upset out of embarrassment. And what about Roger? Poor Roger.....lol Post reply Do you find this valuable?
donsnextwife	11. RE: questions Oct 4 2010, 11:35 AM EDT " Do we men want home, or sanctuary? Or do we want both. But wait a minute...aren't they both supposed to be one in the same? Maybe, sometimes the real answer is...no. (que your booooing now) Home and sanctuary: are they synonymous, or actually in real life and marriage, mutually exclusive? I know, Booo right? But MM makes you ask these questions..." I think that, for men, home and sanctuary are 2 different things. Women would like them to be the same but alas and alack.... Post reply Do you find this valuable?
SCMadman	12. RE: Episode 4.11 "Chinese Wall" Oct 4 2010, 1:27 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 4 2010, 1:27 PM EDT Peggy wasn't upset because she just kept/landed an account when it really meant a lot for her to do so. Had she lost the account, she would have been extremely mad. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
MaXimillian10	13. RE: Episode 4.11 "Chinese Wall" Oct 4 2010, 4:22 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 4 2010, 4:23 PM EDT "It looks like Don picked the wrong week to give up drinking." "Airplane" the hollywood classic comedic farse. Line delivered unforgettably by the distinguished Loyyd Bridges, who on top over everything else, gave the world Jeff Bridges. If the whole world got along, with the like mindedness and connection of Mad Men fans, this would be a far better planet. M Post reply Do you find this valuable?
amy_c	14. RE: Episode 4.11 "Chinese Wall" Oct 5 2010, 3:26 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 5 2010, 3:26 PM EDT ""Airplane" the hollywood classic comedic farse. Line delivered unforgettably by the distinguished Loyyd Bridges, who on top over everything else, gave the world Jeff Bridges. If the whole world got along, with the like mindedness and connection of Mad Men fans, this would be a far better planet. M" LOL, I often say "Looks like I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue" when something bad happens. Airplane is classic. @SCMadmen -- You are spot on about Peggy! If she had lost that account, especially given how needy SCDP is right now, she would have gone ballistic on that meathead. Sad to see Don fooling around on Dr. Faye so soon. I thought he was really trying to be more honest. I also thought he was gonna confess when she was waiting for him in his apartment. Weren't we just discussing Faye knowing too much and whether or not she'd use that against him? I was doubtful last week, but he is taking advantage of her work relations and now cheating on her. Don, you'd better watch out! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
setharmstrong	15. RE: questions Oct 6 2010, 5:37 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 6 2010, 5:37 PM EDT "I think that, for men, home and sanctuary are 2 different things. Women would like them to be the same but alas and alack...." This is why the "man cave" was invented. :-) Post reply Do you find this valuable?
setharmstrong	16. RE: Episode 4.11 "Chinese Wall" Oct 6 2010, 6:29 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 7 2010, 8:44 AM EDT "@SCMadmen -- You are spot on about Peggy! If she had lost that account, especially given how needy SCDP is right now, she would have gone ballistic on that meathead. Sad to see Don fooling around on Dr. Faye so soon. I thought he was really trying to be more honest. I also thought he was gonna confess when she was waiting for him in his apartment. Weren't we just discussing Faye knowing too much and whether or not she'd use that against him? I was doubtful last week, but he is taking advantage of her work relations and now cheating on her. Don, you'd better watch out! " It is disappointing to see Don cheating on Dr. Faye so soon, but he really doesn't have much hope of changing. For one thing, there won't be any treatment for "sex addiction" for several decades yet! ;-) As for Peggy, couldn't Harry at least have whispered something to her? What a bunch of douches. Still, she was probably just relieved that guy wasn't coming on to her. It probably would have been the least subtle she'd ever had, which around there is saying something. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
MaXimillian10	17. RE: Episode 4.11 "Chinese Wall" Oct 6 2010, 8:33 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 6 2010, 8:38 PM EDT "Max, In a way Don was different, at least with Megan. He let her initiate their moment and even paused twice to ask her if she was sure she knew what she was doing. And then he looked as though he was remorseful for his actions when Faye was at the apartment waiting on him, especially after she informed him about her attempt to get him in the door with a new client. " This strikes at the heart of the delemma. Should we except excuses and rationalisations from pepole like Draper ? Are they deserving of our understanding ? Because we like the guy, find him interesting, might like to be him, if but for a moment ? He entertains us, he's reckless, but does he deserve the understanding and exceptionalism he enjoys, in getting away with a lot, perHaps MOST of what he does ? With comparatively limited costs to himself, overall. In the larger context, there maybe a much greater metaphor there. "exceptionalism" So, he had an argument with Faye, earlier in the day, she stood up to him, and they parted in dis-agreement, and so, in the final analysis, lame protestation aside, and ends up banging a 20 something year old. He gets even with faye, puts her out of sight, out of mind. Here's the key, it's mostly about him, one moment to the next, as Roger once told him, "you don't value your relationships." He slips back into his old ways, Blonde at home, brunette on the side, all too readily. No long term thinking there, just viceral reaction. M Post reply Do you find this valuable?
amy_c	18. RE: Episode 4.11 "Chinese Wall" Oct 7 2010, 5:47 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 7 2010, 5:47 PM EDT I agree with everything you said, Max. We enjoy Don. He's interesting, complex and a creative genius. However, he's not a good guy. We often don't like him or agree with what he's doing. It's probably what makes this series so fascinating and original. Our protagonist is a bit of a cad! So, the Faye thing... you're right, he just cut and ran after an argument. Mind you, he might have bedded the secretary the day before the argument. That wouldn't surprise me, either. I do think Don was tempted to 'fess up to Faye after it happened. He really has been more honest with her than any other woman (other than the real Mrs. Draper). He told Faye his secret and although he claimed it was from exhaustion, I do think he has let his guard down with her. I don't know. I honestly don't want any relationship to work out for Don because all of these women deserve better! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
setharmstrong	19. RE: Episode 4.11 "Chinese Wall" Oct 7 2010, 8:35 PM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 7 2010, 8:35 PM EDT "We enjoy Don. He's interesting, complex and a creative genius. However, he's not a good guy. We often don't like him or agree with what he's doing. It's probably what makes this series so fascinating and original. Our protagonist is a bit of a cad!" Were it not for his bad qualities he would be too good to be a believable or interesting character. Post reply Do you find this valuable?

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