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Discussion: Episode 4.10 "Hands and Knees" Discussion
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amy_c |
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Greg1835 |
1. RE: Episode 4.10 "Hands and Knees" Discussion
Sep 27 2010, 12:53 AM EDT
Interesting that after the G men talk to Betty and she tells Don, he makes it clear despite their differences to thank her. Remember Peggy saying you never say thank you.Here's something I didn't think mattered in other episodes but it was here again tonight. Betty and the phone about the Beatles tickets: you clearly see Bobby's picture on the bottom left of the screen but it is half cut off. Back when Don and Peggy spent the night together in the office more than once you saw the kids pictures were never clear, they were always cut off. Don had Anna's picture cutting off his own kids pictures by being in front. So between that, and here, you more than once have the kids pictures cut. Joan yet again caught behind some sort of curve. She's assumed to already be a mom here when asked about her assumed daughter, and before when she was teased as being old in the office, calling her mom at the vending machine. So we have a continuing theme of Don is losing it, Joan is losing it, Roger and Bert are losing it, beginning with Blankenship last week. "Losing it" can constitute any number of things, but the concept is rearing it's head as of late. Roger is fighting for his life with Lee G jr. He smacks the table, fighting. Usually he fights the idea of mortality with sex. But here he does so with business. Again Roger stares death right in the face as he has a history of; through the war, coronaries and business. The end of Lucky Strike could mean the death of business. Meanwhile Joan is assumedly ending life that is literally Roger. Pete again this season is seemingly at a crossroads. Pete is questioning everything nearing the end here. And he did so last year at this time last season at the Kennedy episode. Notice the scenes for next week where he is in the office without the suit and tie? He was like that last year on the couch with Trudy at the Kennedy episode. Do you find this valuable? |
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Greg1835 |
2. RE: Episode 4.10 "Hands and Knees" Discussion
Sep 27 2010, 12:54 AM EDT
Don and Dr. Faye:More exploration of the idea of pseudo-Betty. Don has a history of confiding in blonde wedding cake images being he's the wedding cake male. Here he gives his past up to Faye. That's big. (and of course he still says "they mixed us up" so he's still lying even in telling the truth; a mirror to the box episode last year) Also, earlier in the episode in all the chaos, he still actually kisses her hand here. The hand kiss is a show of affection, a show of intention, but more importantly an actual effort of a male toward a female is what the kiss on the hand is about. Showing her, not just telling her, that it's about her is what the hand kiss is about. The hand kiss is about meaning. And he in the midst of his misery, kisses Faye's hand. But he also in the same episode says thank you to Betty. Remember Peggy screaming at him he never says thank you. Remember he put his hand on Peggy's which was probably all Allison the prior secretary was looking for; an effort from him. But he says thank you to Betty, that he apparently learned from Peggy. Don say's the line, "We'll figure out what to do." Is that meant for Faye or really is it meant for Betty? But..... not to ruin it, but, the episode ends with Don eyeballing the brunette hot secretary. Mr. Draper who has again had a blonde confiding thing in him, lucky that he's out of his bind, is now eyeballing the brunette as she's being girly. He doesn't look away. The episode ends. The Beatles "Do you wanna know a secret" musically closes the curtain. Great choice. Do you find this valuable? |
MaXimillian10 |
3. RE: Episode 4.10 "Hands and Knees" Discussion
Sep 27 2010, 1:19 AM EDT
But..... not to ruin it, but, the episode ends with Don eyeballing the brunette hot secretary. You nail it as usual Greg. Blonde VS Brunette, I get it, and have brought that up as well. Most of us, including apparently Weiner grew up with Archie comics. Not that he needed the help, but it was Don's lawyer that put that idea in his head. Having said that, for most functional human beings, there can be a universe in time and space that seperates what we THINK, what we might SAY, and what we might actually DO. The Beatles reference with Sally and the closing song, agreed, brilliant, Weiner pulls another rabbit out of his hat. Too bad Richard Harris isn't still around to have played lane's dad, that would have been a quirk. The guy who did though was great, as a quintessential stiff, hard nosed Brit. M Do you find this valuable? |
sketchgrrl |
4. RE: Episode 4.10 "Hands and Knees" Discussion
Sep 27 2010, 1:45 AM EDT
| Post edited: Sep 27 2010, 2:00 AM EDT
One thing that struck me about this episode (which I watched twice) was that Joan's comment to Roger the day after she went to Morristown was ambiguous. I think it's possible that nothing happened in Morristown after all, and that the comment by the woman in the waiting room might have caused Joan to change her mind. S P O I L E R BELOW. Scroll down if you've already watched this episode. I think there's a reason the writers of this episode had the crying woman in the waiting room say she was glad she had her daughter, even though she was so young when she gave birth to her. I think this comment might have caused Joan to leave Morristown without having done anything there. I guess we'll find out eventually if I'm right. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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sketchgrrl |
5. RE: Episode 4.10 "Hands and Knees" Discussion
Sep 27 2010, 1:46 AM EDT
| Post edited: Sep 27 2010, 1:47 AM EDT
Also, I worry about Don's having confided in Faye to the extent that he did about his past. If things don't work out between Don and Faye, who knows how she might expose him?
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MaXimillian10 |
6. RE: Episode 4.10 "Hands and Knees" Discussion
Sep 27 2010, 1:53 AM EDT
"I worry about Don's having confided in Faye "This is true, although at the moment their relationship is hunky dorry. We've seen she has an ugly side. What was also interesting is Betty, that she didn't tell Henry. If Campbell (weasle, maybe no more ?) had told HIS wife, on top of everything else. Don might as well have taken out a billboard in times square. M 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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GabyAtamoo |
7. RE: Episode 4.10 "Hands and Knees" Discussion
Sep 27 2010, 5:23 AM EDT
"Also, I worry about Don's having confided in Faye to the extent that he did about his past. If things don't work out between Don and Faye, who knows how she might expose him?"Didn't Faye mention that her father was in essence a member of the mob during her first formal dinner date with Don. Would this not make her accustomed to the "secrets of men," thus making her more prone to keep such a secret, in spite of whatever transpires sentimentally between Don and herself. Do you find this valuable? |
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GabyAtamoo |
8. RE: Episode 4.10 "Hands and Knees" Discussion
Sep 27 2010, 6:14 AM EDT
| Post edited: Sep 27 2010, 6:15 AM EDT
Do you believe that the Lucky Strike account is really gone? Yes, Roger is in a fix. It seems like there is no way out; but wait, Don knows something about Lee, something which could easily be leveraged to protect the agency's share of Lucky's advertising budget. Wouldn't desperate times call for desperate measures? Is it not possible once Roger comes clean about the Lucky loss that Don would use Lee's closet bisexuality as a "negotiating" tool to save the account. After all, the agency never had the full account, surely Lee would be able to find a way for SCDP to keep their share of the biz if he were threatened with a compromising outing. Especially if such an outing were carefully planned and choreographed such as the Honda faux-commercial or the departure from Sterling Cooper 1.0 at the end of season 3. Just something to think about. Do you find this valuable? |
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MaXimillian10 |
9. RE: Episode 4.10 "Hands and Knees" Discussion
Sep 27 2010, 7:36 AM EDT
"Yes, Roger is in a fix. I"And like Joan, (his soul mate) he's keeping his stress all bottled up inside, and didn't confide in anyone . "making her more prone to keep such a secret, in spite of whatever transpires sentimentally between Don and herself." Interesting theory, " very interesting."* * Rowan & Martin's "laugh in," is on the horizon as an American cultural phenomina. M M Do you find this valuable? |
SCMadman |
10. RE: Episode 4.10 "Hands and Knees" Discussion
Sep 27 2010, 10:47 AM EDT
Being in sales, it pained me to watch Roger lose the Lucky Strike account....to view how it happened over dinner and how Lee broke the news to him. I have experienced that same scenario and felt helpless, just like Roger. And I have to give kudos to Pete for how he took the bullet for Don's lies, giving up a $4 million account and having Roger lambast him for losing it. Pete might still have some weasleness left in him, but he sacrificed himself like a hero for Don and I didn't see Don say thank you. Don more or less demanded it of Pete. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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amy_c |
11. RE: Episode 4.10 "Hands and Knees" Discussion
Sep 27 2010, 1:20 PM EDT
"Also, I worry about Don's having confided in Faye to the extent that he did about his past. If things don't work out between Don and Faye, who knows how she might expose him?"She doesn't strike me as the "woman scorned" type who would try to get revenge on an ex. Granted, we haven't seen much of her yet, but she is so level-headed and understanding. She did mention her dad being kind of connected to the Mob, though. Think that will come up again later? Do you find this valuable? |
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sketchgrrl |
12. RE: Episode 4.10 "Hands and Knees" Discussion
Sep 27 2010, 3:29 PM EDT
"She doesn't strike me as the "woman scorned" type who would try to get revenge on an ex. Granted, we haven't seen much of her yet, but she is so level-headed and understanding.But remember several episodes ago when Don walked past her as she was in a phone booth, emotionally cursing out her then-boyfriend? Whether in real life or in fiction, people can have many sides. They can appear very level-headed and rational but then something can happen that gets them angry and you never know how they will react. Do you find this valuable? |
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SCMadman |
13. RE: Episode 4.10 "Hands and Knees" Discussion
Sep 27 2010, 4:00 PM EDT
"But remember several episodes ago when Don walked past her as she was in a phone booth, emotionally cursing out her then-boyfriend? Whether in real life or in fiction, people can have many sides. They can appear very level-headed and rational but then something can happen that gets them angry and you never know how they will react."Much like Don Draper........he appears level-headed and rational......but we all know he has another side. Do you find this valuable? |
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MaXimillian10 |
14. RE: Episode 4.10 "Hands and Knees" Discussion
Sep 27 2010, 6:29 PM EDT
"But remember several episodes ago when Don walked past her as she was in a phone booth, emotionally cursing out her then-boyfriend?"Ok, but how do we actually know who she was mouthing off to ? Boyfriend ? How do we know for sure ? She has told Don, she's not married, and has no kids. None of which preclude others. M Do you find this valuable? |
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setharmstrong |
15. RE: Episode 4.10 "Hands and Knees" Discussion
Sep 27 2010, 9:24 PM EDT
| Post edited: Sep 27 2010, 9:29 PM EDT
"Much like Don Draper........he appears level-headed and rational......but we all know he has another side."There's a price to pay for always appearing so cool and collected. Every so often Don experiences an emotional pon-farr and totally flips out. I can see Faye being the same way. Do you find this valuable? |
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setharmstrong |
16. RE: Episode 4.10 "Hands and Knees" Discussion
Sep 27 2010, 9:27 PM EDT
"She did mention her dad being kind of connected to the Mob, though. Think that will come up again later?Maybe the show ends with Don being whacked. The final scene could be just like the Sopranos. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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setharmstrong |
17. RE: Episode 4.10 "Hands and Knees" Discussion
Sep 27 2010, 9:29 PM EDT
" I think it's possible that nothing happened in Morristown after all, and that the comment by the woman in the waiting room might have caused Joan to change her mind. "I thought the same thing. I guess she won't be able to keep it a secret for long. Of course, if the baby's born with Roger's trademark white hair... ;-) 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
donsnextwife |
18. RE: Episode 4.10 "Hands and Knees" Discussion
Sep 28 2010, 12:04 AM EDT
"I thought the same thing. I guess she won't be able to keep it a secret for long. Of course, if the baby's born with Roger's trademark white hair... ;-)"And Roger seems to be a lot more "real" with her lately...more open with feelings. I loved when he looked at her and told her "You're so beautiful." There's definitely something there. If her hub doesn't come back I'll betcha.....remember, you heard it here first. But then again, I always was a sap for a happy ending. Do you find this valuable? |
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donsnextwife |
19. Don's "look"
Sep 28 2010, 12:18 AM EDT
Ok, y'all. I want to hear your thoughts on the look he gave his secretary at the end of the show. What do you think was going through his head (besides the obvious). Was he feeling a touch of remorse? Or was it just lust again? Or...?
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