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Discussion: Episode 4.4 "The Rejected" Discussion Thread

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amy_c	Episode 4.4 "The Rejected" Discussion Thread Aug 15 2010, 3:42 PM EDT Let's discuss the episode here after it airs! Post reply Do you find this valuable? Keyword tags: None
greg4881	1. RE: Episode 4.4 "The Rejected" Discussion Thread Aug 16 2010, 2:33 AM EDT Thought it was great. It really elaborated on how a person gets congratulated for doing something that is a social norm(Peter getting his wife pregnant.), as opposed to Peggy who doesn't conform and gets to play with new friends at the end of the episode while Pete looks at her as if he's lost all his freedom. What did u think? I want to know the name of the song at the end. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
BevAnneS	2. RE: Episode 4.4 "The Rejected" Discussion Thread Aug 16 2010, 2:15 PM EDT Allison is right -- at this point, Don is nothing but a drunk. I thought that last week, but she put it right out there this week. I'm no longer feeling smypathatic towards him. And Peggy appears to be as naive as she was in 1960. Anyone could have seen that pass coming from the moment she entered the elevator. Pete came out looking like the real grownup in this episode. But that glance between him and Peggy is going to lead to trouble! Glad to see Ken make an appearance. Do you suppose he and Pete are still going to be competing? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Greg1835	3. RE: Episode 4.4 "The Rejected" Discussion Thread Aug 16 2010, 5:36 PM EDT Glass wall, acceptance vs rejection The Rejected. So many levels. We get the obvious, Pete being rejected at the office, then having to reject his father-in-law and of course Don rejecting Allison. Then at the end of course, Peggy rejecting the old guard as she runs off with her new crowd. But there's one more element about facing rejection, really interesting. The last shot: Don looking at the old man going into his apt as Don is doing the same. The rejection of Don Draper and that sort of society is no coincidence juxtaposed with the shot of Peggy prior and her younger people. Don is the rejected. Peggy last year in the 3 parties episode was as always caught in between an identity. She was half working as the old guard would, but ends up half playing as the new guard does. This episode this season, she makes a choice, her own choice. There's a barrier, the glass door/wall separating the old guard from the new guard as Peggy's friends enter (but stop at it and don't go through it). Also visually you have the secretary in red, a shot from behind, using her visually placed between the two groups as well, visually drawing the line for further visual emphasis. Peggy asks do you want to join us, she says she can't. The secretary is in between symbolically, between work of the old guard as she does and play of the new guard as she seemingly wants; not just spirit but also visually the presence of her body drawing the line. Rare do you see camera shots from behind someone, so here there's a reason. Peggy has a sort of closure in her first conversation with Pete. Then here, with the visuals of the divided society, the choice she makes, she says something to Pete. Without words and through metaphor she says goodbye to Pete, through the wall and choosing to stand on her side of it. Both Don and Peggy saw their future here tonight? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Greg1835	4. RE: Episode 4.4 "The Rejected" Discussion Thread Aug 16 2010, 5:37 PM EDT Don at the end. Watching the old man, did Don see the future? It is clear on what side of the wall, the wall we saw in SCDP with the old guard on one side and the new guard right outside, we saw this old man is on. He is on the side that is apart from the new rising Peggy and friends side. But, the old man is with someone though. He is not on the side of the wall about power to the people etc. He is on his side of the wall, alone with his wife, quiet and concerned only with his peaches. This is probably a man who spent his life being simply thankful for what he ever had, and not being angry at what he didn't have. The difference between the two sides of the wall. Don said to Rachel Menkin in the first episode ever, (and one of the best dialogues you'll ever hear) "you're born alone and you die alone, and all this world does is drop a bunch of rules on top of you. I never forget that. I'm living for tomorrow because, there is none." Peggy spent last season and up until this season riding a confused fence, undecided which side is her, in search of an identity. And of course remember identity is a running theme through our little show here. In the end of this episode, the old guard is shaking hands as the modern executive does. Peggy's crowd is giggling having fun, as the new guard does. Don enters his crappy apartment, alone, as the episode ends. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Greg1835	5. RE: Episode 4.4 "The Rejected" Discussion Thread Aug 16 2010, 5:41 PM EDT The competition over Peggy Last year, Duck trying to woo Peggy from Sterling Cooper. The priest competing both with and against her in season 2 for the truth. Her mother competing with Madison Avenue to keep her home. Her sister endlessly competing with her due to sibling rivalry. Don, wanting to bring her from SC to SCDP. At the party tonight, the guy in the closet and Peggy's friend both having eyes for her competing for her. At SCDP Peggy is in an implied competition because the old guard likes her work and wants her; Freddie, Don and Roger only care about who makes money. But the new guard shows up for her not exactly being shy about it. The old guard takes her work seriously which is so important to her, even if they still have a boys will boys attitude that she has to put up with. But the new guard cares not about her work. The new guard doesn't care about one of the very things so important to her. Does Peggy stick with those who take her work seriously even though they don't treat her like one of the boys? Or does Peggy join those that take an interest in her but have no care for her work, which means a lot to her? What defines Peggy? Peggy has been completely starved for attention because she's either been an object as an office tool or a family tool or a utilitarian tool, but here tonight she (seemingly because you never know what will happen) was given attention not for a personal use, but finally as an accepted peer. Even in the 3 parties episode last year she was still treated as a lark and not seriously with the Paul gang. Which group is the real user? Peggy, who wants what any normal person does, attention, gets none yet gets too much; just too much of the wrong kind. Not exactly new in life, huh? The conflict that is Peggy continues... Post reply Do you find this valuable?
amy_c	6. RE: Episode 4.4 "The Rejected" Discussion Thread Aug 17 2010, 12:31 PM EDT Peggy is obviously still trying to find herself. She goes from playfully trying on a wedding ring at the office to smoking grass with some bohemian artists. She is at this crossroads where she could become this hip NYC career gal or go the route of traditional wife and mother. I was so glad that Don was finally called out on being such a cad, although I don't think this is enough to shake any sense into him. He is spiraling, isn't he? Loved seeing him squirm during that market research meeting. Yikes! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
BevAnneS	7. RE: Episode 4.4 "The Rejected" Discussion Thread Aug 17 2010, 4:10 PM EDT "Loved seeing him squirm during that market research meeting. Yikes! " Me too!! I don't ever remember him appearing uncomfortable before. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
SamCookeFan1	8. RE: Episode 4.4 "The Rejected" Discussion Thread Aug 17 2010, 6:34 PM EDT Don is going through a lot of internal changes that will probably mature his character. Peggy wistfully gazes at Pete and sees the life she thought she'd be living at this point of her life, but is moving into the fast lane of Warhol, weed, and wanton randonmess of experientialism as she propels herself into a mod "Mad" Woman, a la Helen Gurly Brown. I missed the music this week, and wouldn't you know it, my music producer boyfriend, who watched the show with me for the first time, commented that the sound was somewhat low. The costuming is bril. I ferlt myself back in school with the bow-blouses and plaid pleats. Howeverm, A line skirts and V necks were huge in the midwest. Villager was the look, then. Madras shirts for guys, tennis sweaters, Angora, jumpers, button down shirts and blouses were the ilk. So we are not imagining this, those of us who previously commented on the audio... Post reply Do you find this valuable?
amy_c	9. RE: Episode 4.4 "The Rejected" Discussion Thread Aug 17 2010, 7:05 PM EDT "Me too!! I don't ever remember him appearing uncomfortable before." Heh, even my husband was shouting, "That's right, Don! You squirm in your seat, you jerk!" I felt so bad for Allison, but then I totally sided with Peggy for being upset by the implication that she had been one of Don's conquests. Peggy works so hard and they probably all gossip about how she slept her way to the top. Peggy will find way more happiness with her new counterculture friends, I think. Oh, if Kinsey could see her now, hanging out with Warhol Factory types... Post reply Do you find this valuable?
asrj52	10. RE: Episode 4.4 "The Rejected" Discussion Thread Oct 1 2010, 9:10 AM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 1 2010, 9:12 AM EDT Did anyone happen to recognise the music track that was played towards the end of the episode? It sounded somewhat like House of the Rising Sun by The Animals but with different lyrics. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Inkerman	11. RE: Episode 4.4 "The Rejected" Discussion Thread Oct 18 2010, 9:40 AM EDT \| Post edited: Oct 18 2010, 9:43 AM EDT Does anyone agree with me that the scene where Peggy and Pete look directly at each other, (for whatever reason) for possibly a second or two too long is simply beautiful, I'm a regular straight guy and will happily admit that this electric scene blows me away every time I watch it. It has to rate as one of the best all time lingering looks, not only within Mad Men but possibly in cinematic history!!!! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
amy_c	12. RE: Episode 4.4 "The Rejected" Discussion Thread Oct 18 2010, 2:42 PM EDT "Does anyone agree with me that the scene where Peggy and Pete look directly at each other, (for whatever reason) for possibly a second or two too long is simply beautiful, I'm a regular straight guy and will happily admit that this electric scene blows me away every time I watch it. It has to rate as one of the best all time lingering looks, not only within Mad Men but possibly in cinematic history!!!!" You know, that look really stuck with me, as well. I think of it a lot! It really was beautiful. They were both rejoicing a bit about their exciting new futures (Pete and his unborn child, Peggy and her new friends), then look at each other and it's a sad understanding between them that they are just in different worlds. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Inkerman	13. RE: Episode 4.4 "The Rejected" Discussion Thread Oct 19 2010, 8:18 AM EDT Isn't it strange how one particular scene can evoke different understandings of what is trying to be conveyed by the actors and the production team alike. My appreciation of this scene was very much of a yearning of what might have been between Peggy and Pete if they had allowed themselves to indulge in one another on a higher plain and not just on the sofa in Pete's office. I also think the incidental music being played at the time was simply sublime for that mood - Genius Mad Men. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
DickDon	14. RE: Episode 4.4 "The Rejected" Discussion Thread Mar 26 2012, 5:57 AM EDT Did you get pears? Post reply Do you find this valuable?