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Discussion: Episode 3.12 "The Grown-Ups"

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amy_c	Episode 3.12 "The Grown-Ups" Nov 2 2009, 12:01 AM EST Let's talk about the episode here after it airs! :) Post reply Do you find this valuable? Keyword tags: None
amy_c	1. RE: Episode 3.12 "The Grown-Ups" Nov 2 2009, 11:53 AM EST Well, I was really expecting the JFK assassination to be the big finale, so this makes me think they are really ramping up for some drama next week! Will Pete leave? Will Betty run away with Henry? Ack! It looked like Don really intended to change since his secrets are out, but it was too little, too late. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
lori-in-irvine	2. RE: Episode 3.12 "The Grown-Ups" Nov 2 2009, 12:25 PM EST Where to begin, there were so many stories intertwined, all riveting. Betty is seeking escape and romance but she has 3 kids!! I wonder if HF has really thought through what he'd be taking on. I don't blame Betty for leaving, she's been hurt deeply, and hardly even knows the half of it, but you can't just leave your kids and run off to Rome whenever you get bored with life, but then again Betty is not very involved with the kids anyway and has a saint like Carla so no worries, maybe that would work for her. HF could offer her a more exciting life if she becomes involved in his world, unlike Don who just want to keep her in a little cage (go upstairs and take a pill). Betty doesn't know HF very well, he's infatuated with her beauty but we have no idea what kind of person he is. Maybe his wife left him cause he cheated too. We know he has a grown daughter, there could be an interesting story line developing around conflict between the daughter and Betty. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Green-Arrow	3. RE: Episode 3.12 "The Grown-Ups" Nov 2 2009, 1:29 PM EST \| Post edited: Nov 2 2009, 1:29 PM EST Yet another amazing and powerful episode! I loved the wedding scene, with Roger gamely trying to consolidate the tables and keep things moving, the Sterling Cooper staff huddled around the TV in the kitchen, and Don giving Roger a pointed look, as if to say, "I'm here. Don't you ever forget that I was here." Don's reaction to the assassination was interesting, too. He more or less refuses to let it get to him, telling the kids "There will be a funeral. We'll be sad. There will be a new president. We'll move on." Either he's been completely depleted of emotion by recent events, or he's just wired to never lose control of himself. It's pretty clear that Henry's offering Betty a false dream, going so far as remind her of her favorite movie, "Singing in the Rain." He's playing the grass-is-always-greener card, knowing full well that to her, ANY grass looks greener than her current situation. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
amy_c	4. RE: Episode 3.12 "The Grown-Ups" Nov 2 2009, 4:18 PM EST \| Post edited: Nov 2 2009, 4:18 PM EST I think Lori is right about Henry, too. He is infatuated with Betty's beauty, but how much can he really know about her? He had coffee with her and made out with her briefly... now he wants to marry her? I mean, she is beautiful, but c'mon! He might also like playing the hero, which would explain his involvement with saving the reservoir. There was a bit of a crack in Don's veneer when Oswald was shot. It was just almost TOO much all at once. Then, when he went upstairs after Betty told him she didn't love him, he looked very distraught. His house of cards has been tumbling ever so slowly this season. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
mdashes	5. RE: Episode 3.12 "The Grown-Ups" Nov 2 2009, 5:47 PM EST \| Post edited: Nov 2 2009, 5:47 PM EST "He is infatuated with Betty's beauty, but how much can he really know about her? He had coffee with her and made out with her briefly... now he wants to marry her? I mean, she is beautiful, but c'mon! He might also like playing the hero, which would explain his involvement with saving the reservoir. There was a bit of a crack in Don's veneer when Oswald was shot. It was just almost TOO much all at once. Then, when he went upstairs after Betty told him she didn't love him, he looked very distraught. His house of cards has been tumbling ever so slowly this season. " I had the same reaction to Henry when I watched the show. But now I wonder if the shock of Kennedy's death made him do something impulsive. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
AudriusVilnius	6. RE: Episode 3.12 "The Grown-Ups" Nov 5 2009, 2:54 AM EST \| Post edited: Nov 5 2009, 2:54 AM EST The most beautiful, witty and dramatic Mad Men episode of all seasons. This could have been a finale. The "triangle" scene featuring Betty, Don and Henry -- marvelous. I was literally holding my breath -- is she going for Don or Henry? I felt that Betty didn't know that for herself until the last second. Betty feels she doesn't love Don anymore. Does Don love Betty? Or does he only love the idea of a family? ... On the advertising side, no new art director, huh? Does that mean a chance we might see Salvatore back...in season 4? And it looks like it's Pete, not Peggy, who might leave for Grey. The latter just needs a lover, not a new job. Or does she? Duck has got to be the least charming / worst-spoken dude in Mad Men. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
lori-in-irvine	7. RE: Episode 3.12 "The Grown-Ups" Nov 5 2009, 10:31 AM EST I agree Audrius, this episode was stunning. The "triangle" scene was brilliant, every detail of the show is so well crafted. I even liked that moment of suspense when Henry walks in with a younger woman, then it's revealed to be his daughter, the emotions playing our on Betty's face. I don't think Sal is coming back, it sounds like they absorbed his salary and just shifted the work to others (just like the corporate world of today) Post reply Do you find this valuable?
setharmstrong	8. RE: Episode 3.12 "The Grown-Ups" Nov 6 2009, 8:48 AM EST \| Post edited: Nov 6 2009, 8:55 AM EST "I think Lori is right about Henry, too. He is infatuated with Betty's beauty, but how much can he really know about her? He had coffee with her and made out with her briefly... now he wants to marry her? I mean, she is beautiful, but c'mon! He might also like playing the hero, which would explain his involvement with saving the reservoir." It could be he has no intention of marrying her, but figured it might be the way to get her in the sack. So far nothing else has worked. We already know he's a sleazeball, even to consider an affair with her since he knew she was married when they met. To quote Mrs. Lovejoy, won't someone please think of the children?! It's hard to read him, though. I can't help thinking that he saw the reservoir situation as an opportunity to lay the groundwork. He thought he'd be further ahead than he is now. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
setharmstrong	9. RE: Episode 3.12 "The Grown-Ups" Nov 6 2009, 8:50 AM EST \| Post edited: Nov 6 2009, 8:50 AM EST "I don't think Sal is coming back, it sounds like they absorbed his salary and just shifted the work to others (just like the corporate world of today)" Maybe Sal should apply over at Gray? :-) Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Green-Arrow	10. RE: Episode 3.12 "The Grown-Ups" Nov 6 2009, 11:56 AM EST "Maybe Sal should apply over at Gray? :-)" Not a bad idea, though I seem to remember Duck not having much respect for the Art Department at Sterling Cooper... Post reply Do you find this valuable?
amy_c	11. RE: Episode 3.12 "The Grown-Ups" Nov 6 2009, 12:10 PM EST "It could be he has no intention of marrying her, but figured it might be the way to get her in the sack. So far nothing else has worked. We already know he's a sleazeball, even to consider an affair with her since he knew she was married when they met. To quote Mrs. Lovejoy, won't someone please think of the children?! It's hard to read him, though. I can't help thinking that he saw the reservoir situation as an opportunity to lay the groundwork. He thought he'd be further ahead than he is now." I don't know what his motives are, but it seemed very strange to mention marriage when he barely knows her! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Green-Arrow	12. RE: Episode 3.12 "The Grown-Ups" Nov 6 2009, 12:17 PM EST Henry may not know very much about Betty, but he has known her for more than six months now, so it's not exactly a whirlwind obsession. He's had time to decide that she's the one he wants. Raises the question: How long did Don know Betty before he proposed? Post reply Do you find this valuable?
setharmstrong	13. RE: Episode 3.12 "The Grown-Ups" Nov 6 2009, 9:24 PM EST \| Post edited: Nov 6 2009, 9:24 PM EST "Henry may not know very much about Betty, but he has known her for more than six months now, so it's not exactly a whirlwind obsession. He's had time to decide that she's the one he wants. Raises the question: How long did Don know Betty before he proposed? " They haven't spent those months getting to know each other, they've met only a few times, exchanged a couple of letters and phone calls. He doesn't know her, and she doesn't seem to know very much about him either. But it's true that we can't really say what his motives are, we'll just have to wait and see. I bet Don didn't know Betty long before proposing. She was the Betty we saw in Rome, so they were both kind of taken in by a bait-and-switch although Betty didn't figure that out until much later. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
amy_c	14. RE: Episode 3.12 "The Grown-Ups" Nov 6 2009, 9:30 PM EST \| Post edited: Nov 6 2009, 9:30 PM EST My guess is she wasn't that sullen until they started having kids. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
MaXimillian10	15. RE: Episode 3.12 "The Grown-Ups" Apr 23 2010, 10:55 AM EDT "I had the same reaction to Henry when I watched the show. But now I wonder if the shock of Kennedy's death made him do something impulsive. " I think that Henry is 'trophy hunting" for a good looking wife, to show off at his side. Betty is vunerable, and available. He also probably takes satisfaction from taking her away from Don. No good can come of this however, and Betty is S#$%^&. pun int. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
amy_c	16. RE: Episode 3.12 "The Grown-Ups" Apr 23 2010, 11:42 AM EDT It's very possible she is a trophy for Henry, but you would think it would reflect better on Henry if he found a wife without several children. I mean, divorces were pretty scandalous back then, weren't they? Who knows, maybe she will move in with him and find a creepy shrine to Grace Kelly. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
MaXimillian10	17. RE: Episode 3.12 "The Grown-Ups" Apr 23 2010, 12:17 PM EDT \| Post edited: Apr 23 2010, 1:53 PM EDT "It's very possible she is a trophy for Henry, but you would think it would reflect better on Henry if he found a wife without several children. I mean, divorces were pretty scandalous back then, weren't they? Who knows, maybe she will move in with him and find a creepy shrine to Grace Kelly. " 'but you would think it would reflect better on Henry if he found a wife without several children. " Good analysis. Henry is not himself an elected official, but works for a high profile one. He's not old, but he is borderline conspicously older than Betty. Recall a hollywood movie from that era, "Yours, Mine, And Ours." It starred Lucielle Ball and Henry Fonda, where a widowed pair re-marry for a combination of something like 18 kids. There's a snap shot of the scocial morays of the timeframe. This was the template for the later "Brady Bunch" TV series. I can think of more sublime reasons, kids can be sent off to boarding schools and such. Perhaps he even has issues along the lines of Pete's. That's an alure of the series and the scripts, you can read in as little, or as much as you like, and the limits of your imagination. Overall, those times however, were NOT all that different from today, things (attitudes) were starting to change, and changing fast. A lot of the trends and scocial realities we take for grated now, were set in motion and started then. Interesting about Grace Kelly. She was alive and well back then, and still at the height of her popularity. I wonder if Betts might have, or might be better off, sticking it out with Don ? Post reply 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?